Interview with Ernestina van de Noort

Interview: Silvia Cruz

Director of the Dutch Flamenco Biennale

5th Dutch Biennial

«The Dutch audience is attracted to flamenco that rejects clichés»

Ernestina van de Noort is a Dutch woman who fell in love with flamenco while hitch-hiking through Spain.  When you think of it, any corny reference could fit in the story she tells with laughter, but among the many foreign tourists who have visited Spain and become interested in this art-form, few have ended up delving so deeply into it as she has, organizing a bi-annual festival that this year reaches its fifth edition.  That young girl who landed in Spain in the nineteen-eighties claims that when she heard a shepherd singing under a bridge near Málaga, her only contact with flamenco had been the Carlos Saura movie.  But she immediately understood that there was a world to be discovered.  No quaint folklore or kitsch for her, she realizes that during her trip, as with so many other Europeans who travelled to Spain during the era, her perceptions and experiences were set in a false romanticism.  Yet even so, she understood that in flamenco, far removed from clichés and picture-postcards, there was depth as well as artistic and aesthetic potential.  And she penetrated into the genre until she found this.

«At that time I was mostly studying English and French translation, but after that experience I really began to focus on Spanish.  I started to travel, I wanted to spend some time in Seville, and while there I signed up at a dance school.  And it turned out to be one of the best things I ever did for myself» says this woman who at the time of the interview seems equally exhausted and exhilarated.  The effort required is obvious:  to organize a festival that runs from January 16th to February 3rd with venues in Amsterdam, Eindhoven, Rotterdam, The Hague and Utrecht is no small task.  «I put the team together just a few months before the event, about ten people in all, but the rest of the time I'm alone, scouting for artists, and what is becoming harder all the time, financial support» explains Ernestina who at one point uses the word «begging».

Cutbacks in sponsorship

The Dutch Biennale is an independent cultural enterprise that receives no infrastructural support from theaters nor from the provincial government as is the case with Mont-de-Marsan and the Bienal de Sevilla.  «I'm jealous of those festivals, 80% of my time is spent tracking down money to stage my event».  She claims that in recent times it has been especially difficult: «The right-wing politics currently governing Holland have made cutbacks of 40% in cultural activities, and it hurts.  The venues that help us pay artists' salaries have also been hurt by this, so their contribution to our project has been reduced».

In previous interviews, Ernestina referred to the high salaries of flamenco artists.  And despite the current economic crisis, she assures us they continue to be high.  «The big companies are still very expensive in comparison with the fees in Holland.  I usually negotiate one-on-one with the artists because the fact is I really have a smaller budget than in earlier years, and I have to work miracles to make ends meet».  But not everything is complaints: the evolution of the festival, audience attendance and their high cultural level have made investors faithful to the cause.   Regarding ticket sales, she's satisfied.  «I expect there to be between 95% and 100% attendance, as in previous years.  Now, there's a tendency to buy tickets at the last minute, and I'm aware this is a festival that comes right after Christmas», she explains, confirming a few hours later that the inaugural show,  «Los Invitados de Belén Maya», is all sold out.

«Cruce de Caminos», crossroads as leitmotiv

Ernestina, co-director along with Martijn van Beenen of a documentary based on the life and work of the Jerez guitar dynasty of the Moraos, knows the ins and outs of classic flamenco.  She is also a demanding spectator, never afraid of speaking her mind, and she has, on occasion, commented that one of her objectives with the Dutch Biennale was to bring out the rhythm her fellow-countrymen have.  And when asked about this, she's quick to proudly state, in no uncertain terms, that she has achieved this goal.  «When we started out, there was a corny image of flamenco, and this festival has managed to show the potential of the art-form, it's capacity to dialogue with other cultures and disciplines, and the aesthetic possibilities it offers».  She believes you can't get through to the Dutch audience by way of polkadots and hair-combs: you have to show them flamenco can be many things that have meaning for them.  For example, contemporary music and dance.

«The  Dutch audience is attracted to flamenco that rejects clichés.  This is why we've spent time and money on productions of our own that seek a dialogue with other influences and cultures».  And that is precisely where Ernestina is happiest, bringing together interpreters with different backgrounds and ideas.  She did it in other editions with Rosario la Tremendita and Mohammed Motamedi in «Qasida», and the adventure of Arcángel with the Bulgarian flautist Theodosii Spassov, to give just a few examples.  This year she's placing her bets on an encounter between the members of Ultrahigh Flamenco, expert  improvisers, and three well-known Dutch jazz musicians: Oene Van Geel, Maarten Ornstein and Tony Roe.  In each edition she seeks a motif for her fiesta flamenca, and this year it's the concept of crossroads, which comes through loud and clear with this jazz and flamenco offering that is part of a program that by no means is deprived of classic flamenco: one of the main attractions is a joint show with Pele and Farruquito.

Seeking new fans

For Ernestina, her project, more than a flamenco event, is «a grand festival of music and dance with flamenco at its center».   The choice of resident artist is also revealing: Renaud García-Fons.  «I chose him because he understands there are only two kinds of music: good and bad.  He rejects all labels and tries his hand at everything: jazz, flamenco, world-music… And he does everything well.  He's an adventurer, he is subtle and works the music in a very serious way».

To enlarge the audience in a small country is complicated, and for this reason one of Ernestina's strategies to attract new fans is to stimulate their curiosity.  «This year we've incorporated small venues such as municipal theaters and modern dance centers where flamenco is not normally programmed, in order to provoke and try to attract new followers».

She knows flamenco artists and flamenco personally.  She knows she can get through to a bigger and more diverse audience, and she works toward this end.  Knowing what's on both sides of the tracks, she understands there is a lot of territory to be explored.   Her humor is contagious, and she's quite the wag.  When asked what flamenco form she would most identify with her fellow countrymen, she is acerbic and jocular: «What I would never identify with them is bulerías» she answers nearly unable to control her laughter.  «Something like siguiriyas or petenera goes better with us.  It's that in Holland, we're always complaining about something».

 

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