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It all began over a cup of coffee, discussing poetry: a good way to pass the time without wasting it, because from that little gathering, an idea was born. Three years later the project has materialized with a recording centered on three main characters: poet Juan Ramón Jiménez, guitarist and composer Juan Carlos Romero and singer Carmen Linares. It’s called “Raíces y Alas”, and it was released on the new label “Salobre”, created by Carmen Linares herself, precisely for the purpose. Carmen talked with us about the record, and the other two participants…
“Raíces y Alas” is a tribute to Juan Ramón Jiménez. It’s only fitting we begin the interview talking about him…
I’m no expert on Juan Ramón Jiménez, but because of this work, I’ve read a lot of his poetry. He combines simplicity with great depth. Like I say, I’m not an academic, but I am sensitive and I see a kind of minimalism, very profound, it gives you cause to think, and it’s useful in your personal life. To read this poet, is to read life. I think
poetry must be linked to life, because it has the most direct line to emotion. If more poetry were read, we’d all be better people.
Let’s talk about another main component of this work: Juan Carlos Romero…
First of all, as a guitarist, I love his playing. And as composer, he has a very important foundation in flamenco which lets him be very authentic and honest in everything he does. He never takes the easy way out. And when he found those poems of Juan Ramón, he went to the poet, to Juan Ramón Jiménez. We went to Juan Ramón, and Juan Carlos put those poems to music: we never intended it to be any other way, what I mean is, trying to turn it into flamenco. That’s why, since each poem is different, each one suggested a different music to Juan Carlos. He has a very special vision of flamenco, and he gives it the same thing I do. I’ve also been very honest with this art and given it my best. He does the same thing, with no concessions.
“Whether or not you like the record, there’s nothing forced”
Without a doubt he has a very personal style…to such an extent that you get the feeling that it must be hard for a singer to latch on to his concepts. I don’t so much mean for interpreting a melody, but to give his music the meaning he intends.
Well, on this record we chose the verses between all of us: Juan Carlos, my husband (Miguel Espín) and myself. Miguel found some very good things, it was a joint effort. But then, Juan Carlos had complete freedom, first, to incorporate the poems we sent him, and afterwards, to compose. The only thing I told him was to include a siguiriya if possible, because it’s a cante I’m very fond of, and he said “if I find something, okay”. In other words, he had to find things himself, and work with those things. For example “Remembranzas” suggested an alegrías-like melody. And everything was done like that, in such a way that it all fits together. That’s why this work, although it’s complex, it was easily comprehensible because I gave him complete freedom. If he felt a ballad was in order, then it was a ballad, and I sang it.
But does he allow suggestions? Can you say to him for example, this or that might be better in some other way?
No no. In the first place, I didn’t try to suggest anything, because he knows very well what I want. He has a very clear concept about what he does, and I’m not going to pressure him when he composes, because I have great confidence in his quality and his criteria. Also, Juan Carlos was composing for me, and if this record had been made for someone else it probably would have come out differently, because he personalizes when he composes. He knows my way of playing, and when he made a record for Miguel Poveda, he was composing for Miguel Poveda. Furthermore, it’s hard to catch up with Juan Carlos, he doesn’t let it happen because he has to like what he does. He has to like the artist he’s composing for, and he has to like the work. That’s why his compositions are so special.
When your starting point is a form of expression – in this case, poetry – and you bring it to another aesthetic medium – in this case, flamenco-like music – you always run the risk of not doing justice to anything. How can such a risk be managed?
I think things have to flow in a natural way. Juan Carlos created original melodies for each poem. I believe that’s the right way to do it, because the other way is to take poetry and put it to colombianas, or whatever. That’s where you can be disappointed, and in fact there are things that disappointed me. I believe it has to be done this way. And maybe you like a certain poem, like the last one on the record, that Miguel found, and which we saw as a kind of siguiriya from the very first moment, and Juan Carlos agreed: “Clavo débil, clavo fuerte / alma mía ¡qué más da! / Fuera cual fuera la suerte / el cuadro se caerá” [‘Strong nail, weak nail / what difference does it make? / no matter what happens / the picture will fall’] What a great piece of poetry. You could sing it as if it were tonás, siguiriyas, it was just begging for it! So yes, that last piece is a toná because that poem was meant for it. Whether or not you like the record, there’s nothing forced. It’s made by a professional who loves flamenco and loves poetry, and he went over to Juan Ramón’s territory, never thinking Juan Ramón would come to flamenco. Juan Ramón is a poet with the aroma of Andalusia, and he may have poems that could be put to soleá, but not forcing the issue, but within the rhythm Juan Carlos wrote music for that poem. I’m very satisfied with this work. If the purists don’t like it, I’m terribly sorry, but what I want is when people hear the record they see it has coherence, feeling and concept.
“We went to Juan Ramón, and Juan Carlos put those poems to music: we never intended it to be any other way, what I mean is, trying to turn it into flamenco”
When you already have a career made, and you’ve shown what you do, what’s it like taking on a new project like this? Is it a challenge, or do you just want to do what you feel like doing?
That’s the good fortune we have, those of us who made a solid career…I made an anthology and many other things. Maybe someone who’s starting out has to prove they can sing and that they know the forms. I already did that, and now I can do whatever I like at every turn. But in actual fact, I’ve never had that problem, and I’ve always managed to cover different stages in a natural way. Maybe the next record will have flamenco, I don’t know, but what I have now is the freedom to make the kind of record I want, because it’s what I feel like doing or what I feel.
Does that have anything to do with “Salobre”?
Salobre is a word I really like. It can mean many things. Salobre is used to describe brackish water, but in Andalusia it’s also used to mean someone who has grace and wit. It’s a nice word. And “Salobre” is the name we used to put out this recording.
But it’s a wide-ranging project with an eye to the future…is this going to be your record label, so as not to depend on the record companies?
The truth is, the recording industry is in dire straits now, and all the companies are having problems. We made this record the way we wanted, and taking our time. I needed time to make this record, and that’s how we did it. But that doesn’t mean the next one won’t be with Universal or another company. For the moment, I have the licence, and I’m able to make the records I want.
Sometimes certain recordings are attacked because they have supposedly been made with commercial criteria in order to sell more, but can you really make a living selling records?
Maybe the person who sells many records… Flamenco sells what it sells. It’s also true that the money spent on advertising flamenco is not the same as spent on other kinds of music. I mean, you can’t say flamenco doesn’t sell. I sold 60,000 copies of my anthology, and that’s a lot for a double CD of traditional cante. The thing is, flamenco records are a long-term proposition. The anthology continues to sell, and has been re-released. And there’s still demand for the songs of García Lorca which is no longer available. Obviously flamenco doesn’t sell like pop music, so we’re always working at a disadvantage. And we need to look for alternative ways of marketing…by internet or something. We need to get it together because the recording industry is very bad, and not so much because of pirating, but because of internet, and that’s very sad, if people only understood… I took a chance with this record, and now I have to see if I can recuperate expenses. But maybe there are people who can’t even afford to buy it. It’s really like going to buy something and not paying for it. People have no conscience and there needs to be a system, or some way of bringing this to an end.
And it’s not just money. You invest a lot of time in a record. How long were you in making this recording, which is basically a simple project in the sense that there aren’t many instruments or complicated arrangements?
It took three years. Nobody told Juan Carlos the record had to be made in four months…the whole thing came about one day when we were having coffee and talking about poetry, so my husband says “why don’t you do something about Juan Ramón Jiménez?” He started sending things, and Juan Carlos was also looking… That was three years ago. It wasn’t a commissioned work, but something we wanted to do. So when we saw it was taking shape, we decided this would be the next record.
And it couldn’t be going better, even before being released it was presented at the Bienal de Sevilla, and Romero got the guitar Giraldillo and the “Mario Maya” prize for Best Musical Work, a prize conceded by the press for Raíces y Alas.
Yes, that’s how it was.
Are you planning on touring with the show?
Of course. The live show is very good. At the Bienal we did it and the audience gave a standing ovation. Generally speaking, all the recordings flamenco artists make, have good live shows.
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