Interview: Pablo San Nicasio
“You have to keep moving, there?s no other choice”
This first interview of the new “season” brings us to the singer called Argentina. Her show, “Un Paseo por el Cante”, is now in the form of a record. With just a glance at the credits, you already have the feeling she is placing her bets on traditional cante and an encyclopedic repertoire, although she denies it, and a good part of the well-travelled paths of classic flamenco singing.
Argentina is always easy to talk to, with that uneasiness that makes her seem so normal even after making the round of some of the best venues. It’s like she doesn’t quite believe it herself yet.
The last time we spoke was in the summer of 2011, when you presented your live show for the Sabatini.
We’ve changed verses, even whole cantes. In the live show I did more than twenty cantes, it was crazy. Now everything is more orderly, better thought-out.
Really?
Yes, there have been changes. Although it’s not as easy as you might think. The murciana, the caña, the polo, the petenera…these are cantes I fear. This show keeps me working hard, and it’s superhard even after two years with it.
The other day I was going over some episodes of “Rito y Geografía del Cante”, the one devoted to Menese, he’s 29 years old there…you’re 28 now, and look how you’re going…
Well, you can’t really compare, things went more slowly back then, and I’ve had a meteoric career for seven years, I can’t even believe it myself. As little self-confidence as I have…now the important thing is to keep up the pace and not fall behind. That’s the hard part, and only time will tell if I’m successful or not.
You go on a lot about your shortcomings, your allergies…about Luismi…
It’s that from the beginning I saw all these people who had better possibilities than me. I never really believed in myself and it took Luismi to drill that needed confidence into me. And I’ve improved, but if something comes out bad on stage, that day I don’t want to see anyone, I’m hard on myself. And they can tell me I’m the prettiest, the most flamenco, whatever… If I really stop and think, there have been very few concerts where I haven’t been self-critical. It must be some kind of trauma I have from the first contest I went to…in Huelva. I forgot the first fandango. I was disqualified on the spot because of the fandango of Cabezas Rubias. But look, then I sang it on my previous record and if doesn’t bother me at all, but self-esteem isn’t my strong point. That’s how I am and like I say, thanks to Luismi. From the beginning, well, now too, he’s fifty percent of everything I do.
Allow me to differ, I think maybe he’s a little less. You’re the one who sings, aren’t you? Maybe 70% you, 20% Luismi and 10% Bolita?
Well okay, alright. They’re always on top of me to study so I can record, so I can do this, that and the other thing…and yes, there’s a lot of input from Bolita.
He’s seems to have a knack for being everywhere.
Yes, he’s always on the go, and he goes all out no matter who he works with, as producer or accompanist. And it’s all great experience for when he makes his own record, he’s been wanting to for a long time, and when he does, all his work with Poveda, Marina and with me is going to come out because of what he puts into it.
What’s more difficult, memory, stamina, changing the approach from one cante to the next…?
Everything. It’s like I said at the beginning. I have to memorize a lot, and it doesn’t come easy to me. Then, I have to deal with my allergies to humidity, dust, etc, which is also a pain.
Let’s go cante by cante. Mostly, to see your references and understand how you structured this anthology.
But it’s not an anthology, I mean, it didn’t intend it to be. There are still many cantes to record. My goal here was to make a traditional recording, Luismi saw it clearly, we needed to put together a dossier for Málaga two years ago, and everything got done very fast. But without the burden of producing an anthology, never.
The abandolao cantes use a very lively rhythm.
They’re based on the Cayetano Muriel “Niño de Cabra” version.
Chano is present in spirit and in the actual cantes.
Yes, and that audio is at Youtube, and don’t think I went to the basement of the archives of a town in the mountains in the middle of nowhere. I have it in my favorites of internet, I listen to it all the time.
“Everyone records the same malagueñas and I didn’t want to do that. I wanted them to be distinctive. And I didn’t want the guitar to be a bore, so many malagueñas are boring right from the guitar introduction.”
Where did you go to find so much information?
To learn the cantes? From internet…YouTube is a gold-mine. And I’ve also got the anthologies of Mairena and Blas Vega…the websites…everything’s there. Those are the free sources, and then I also spent a fortune at Itunes.
In other words, anyone who doesn’t want to sing flamenco, it’s not because of any difficulty finding it.
It has to be because they don’t want to, that’s all I can say. Years ago it was much more difficult, but now there’s no excuse.
I thought you were going to do the malagueña of Chacón, you mentioned it two years ago.
Yeah, but I changed my mind. Everyone records the same malagueñas and I didn’t want to do that. I wanted them to be distinctive. And I didn’t want the guitar to be a bore, so many malagueñas are boring right from the guitar introduction. So I told Bolita to do whatever he thought was necessary, no matter how crazy it might seem. I put that it’s the style of Baldomero Pacheco, but they tell me it was of el Pena…well, I guess it must be true.
What would your teachers at the Cristina Heeren Foundation say about this recording?
I have to send it to them. They’ll like some things, but not others…they’ll scold me for sure. Some things I’ve kept, others, like the serrana, no. I took the version of Pepe de la Matrona. From the Foundation I’ve got carbon copy interpretations of the soleá de Triana and the bambera. But even Pepe de la Matrona and Paco Taranto do them differently, they have more lung-power than me. They would make an effort to give me advice, but I’m already a professional.
You include a tribute to four creators of fandangos. I would have liked to see Toronjo represented…
It might still be in the cards, don’t lose hope…[laughter]. Toronjo is a major task, his delivery is so personal and complex. I’m still very young…the four fandangos I chose adapt well to my register, and I was interested in honoring those creators. Rebollo, Morente, Gloria…I wanted to include them. And the style of Juan María Blanco is a real challenge, very difficult. Maybe the most difficult thing I ever sang in my life. To link the third and fourth lines is a major undertaking.
“If Camarón had had access to something like the Fundation he would have loved it. The thing is, he went from town to town looking for unknown singers because he had no choice”.
Rafael Romero for the caña and the polo…
That’s a tribute to him, completely, with a verse of José de la Tomasa.
Milonga, cantiñas…you move towards the east, to the levante…For milonga I followed Chacón’s model, without drawing it out too much. Throughout the record I tried not to go on too long so as not to bore people. If you notice, the malagueña has no “salida”…everything is perfectly thought out.
What about “Café de la Marina” with that old-style café cantante presentation?
That’s thanks to Rafael “El Guardacoches”, an amateur flamenco from el Arahal who has a lot of historical data about flamenco, incredible, and he really sings well, he’s a good friend. He told me about the Café de la Marina and Luismi saw clearly that this would be the concept and the title of this piece. I really love that presentation.
The petenera, I think you said something about it…about seeking out the optimism as much as possible.
Or at least, change the feeling and verses. I looked for upbeat things and heard María Vargas on a recording with Paco de Lucía. A real find. And the verse was optimistic. Petenera has suffered a lot of negative connotations, like marianas.
Diego del Morao does the bulería.
Who else? He never came with me to perform, but I wouldn’t mind, of course. I followed the model of Paquera.
Then you say you have no lung-power…
It’s that lung-power and strength are two different things. Paquera sometimes sang without amplification, it was amazing how she held her voice. I don’t dare get a nose job because it would change my voice for at least three years before regaining my normal sound. Between Paquera and me, there’s a big difference.
Sernita in the cabal, and the end is “Pasajeros del Tiempo”…a concession to commercial interests?
It’s more like the soundtrack. It’s the moment of the credits, when the movie ends, like in “Los Abrazos Rotos” and you hear Miguel Poveda…that’s what “Pasajeros del Tiempo” is.
The current economic situation, and how it’s affecting shows and records…does it really separate the men from the boys so to speak?
It’s a temporary situation, but it’s hard. Many festivals have disappeared, but really, anyone who wants to make a record can do so, although you see everything. What I do see is this has made a lot of people get on the stick, you have no choice.
I assume you mean renting theaters, self-producing, etc…
Yes, and listen, there isn’t much money in it. You have technicians, lighting, travel, per diem, musicians, you need people willing to sacrifice…but it has to be done.
Years ago you said that in your years at the Foundation you happened to meet Niño Josele who was surprised to discover people studied cante like that.
I don’t know whether or not he was serious. What I can tell you is if Camarón had had access to something like the Foundation he would have loved it. The thing is, he went from town to town looking for unknown singers because he had no choice. By contrast, we have everything laid out in class. Flamenco is to be studied, what else is there?