“Lole and Manuel
together is an explosion, but each one alone has a special
talent”
“Ni el Oro ni la Plata” is
Lole Montoya’s new record. A record which has
enriched Lole artistically although she came up against
certain obstacles in making it, and later in finding
adequate support. Some of the songs are original words
and music by Lole and her ex-companion Manuel who also
takes part in three pieces giving the spirit of that
revolutionary duo that still exists. Her daughter Alba
and her mother la Negra also collaborate on one of the
three Arabic numbers – the mixture of flamenco
and Arabic culture is always very close to the surface
in Lole as this latest work demonstrates. Bulerías,
tangos, alegrías and Nana de la cebolla are examples
on “Ni el oro ni la plata” with that familiar
and unmistakable voice of Lole’s, with its metallic
undercurrents.
What’s included on
“Ni el oro ni la plata”?
There’s like little stories. For example “Bentijamila”
which means “pretty girl” is about all the
time I spent in Madrid and I was singing in the street
thinking of my little girl Alba, and the pain that was
growing in my heart from not being able to see her that
much…but those hard times sometimes come in life.
It’s a beautiful poem, my eyes and heart are my
life experiences after being separated from my child
for a time. It includes many things and in all the messages
there’s a healthy interior and mental well-being
that needs to be expressed.
On “Soledad” I speak myself, but in third
person, a little like when a poet writes, it’s
reciprocal, you realize how a human being needs him
or herself. You and I for example meet once upon a time
because of music, we make contact, and that’s
already a relationship, it’s not just that you’re
a journalist and I’m a singer…in my opinion
this is something we’re both sharing.
“True flamenco is
your own life experience, what happens to you day in
day out”
There
are three songs in Arabic on the record. Have you always
encouraged a relationship between flamenco and Arabic
music?
Yes, because when I was eleven I started listening to
Arabic music, specifically the kind they do in Egypt.
All Arabic music is beautiful, the kind from Morocco
as well, but in Egypt it’s very special because
that’s the birthplace, just like if you go to
Triana in Andalucía, or Jerez, and it’s
very classic flamenco, there’s such a rich background.
Even Arabic poetry is beautiful, it has a long tradition,
the customs and music have a certain pulse and a magnificent
history. Arabic music has taught me so much…how to
sculpt what I sing, even within flamenco, my mother
always sang to me and my father always brought home
records of classical Arabic music when he went to London
to perform. Bob Dylan used to say that the best singer
was Om Kalsoum, she was a woman who was legendary in
Arabic countries, and she was very special. I started
listening to Arabic music and it’s on all Lole
and Manuel’s records.
Your mother and daughter
participate in one of the Arabic songs, “Tercera
generación”. Is Arabic very important in
your family?
Yes, because my mother and all her family were born
in Casablanca, but they’re Andalusian, Spanish,
they don’t have Arabic blood, they’re gypsies
but born over there. My grandfather Joaquín was
from Triana and my grandmother Luisa, from Jerez, just
think of the mixture. And you should have seen my grandmother
dance, what arms, it was incredible how she danced,
and my grandfather sang, it was out of this world. I
remember when I was a little girl, I was always surrounded
by Arabic music. My mother was singing from when she
was a child, when my grandmother started her out singing,
and at the fairs, I was about twelve years old. My aunt
Adina and my mother were from the era of Manolo Caracol,
and they introduced Arabic into flamenco and brought
it to Andalucía.
“The Arabic culture
is very much with me, from my parents, from my own way
of being.”
And do you speak it fluently?
More or less, like French, which is also spoken there,
and my sister, the next youngest after me, is Moroccan,
but we’re all Spanish, born over there, and my
mother’s whole family speaks French and Arabic
and they all sing. My aunts and uncles and I had to
learn a few things to know what everyone was saying.
In the song Bentijamila for example it says: “neither
the Torre del Oro, nor the Giralda”, such beautiful
images, so representative of Andalusia and yet so Arabic,
“are for my little one, my little Alba”,
and I made arquitechtonic comparisons, because it was
also from ancient Arabic poetry, very biblical, from
the times of Solomon, extraordinary, almost forgotten,
but I love it because it’s so romantic. The Arabic
culture is very much with me, from my parents, from
my own way of being, my sensitivity to children…people
who are real parents don’t only feel protective
towards their own flesh and blood, this happens in many
cultures, in gypsies, Jews, it’s beautiful because
you see the positive things of the family, not the selfish
things, you see the respect and continuance.
Speaking of the family, there’s
an important musical evolution that goes from your mother,
to you, and to your daughter, with the Arab influence
always very close to the surface.
Yes, my mother is the one who taught us. When I was
small my mother sat me on the table and dressed me up
and I put on my scarf. Alba has seen this and I tell
her: “do it this way dear, it’s so pretty”,
which is what’s behind the piece called “Tercerca
generación”, and she admires that relationship
between my mother and myself, it’s so difficult,
and so beautiful…and since I was young, it was the
same way with Manuel, he was listening to Arabic music
which is like bulerías for us.
What does your cante have
of your mother’s cante, of La Negra, that very
flamenco voice she has?
I think I have her essence, the way she does things,
although I started to go in for different things, “La
Mariposilla” and such, other styles. That talent
she has, she really knows how to sell it, she stands
up, sings, dances, same thing sitting, makes no difference.
It’s true, I’ve inherited a lot from my
mother even though we sing different things. Sometimes
it really shows and suddenly I say “hey look at
that!” Lots of people tell me “you sing
so differently from your mother, but when I listen to
her it always surprises me and I realize how similar
we really are. There’s been a lot of evolution,
but traditional flamenco is beautiful in people who
are pure, who respect the compás. My mother is
very special and my father was also, he danced with
such rhythm…
With the passage of time,
do you return to the roots, or follow the experimental
spirit of Lole and Manuel?
The spirit of Lole and Manual will always be around.
All the recordings of Lole and Manuel are very strong,
Manuel composed the words and music, and the rhythmic
part is very much from both of us. It’s between
two spirits, two personalities that were one, and you
couldn’t see it. All that was special, but for
example I’ve also included the traditional bulerías
“Ni el oro ni la plata”. When you think
of it, traditional flamenco is really maintained, the
palmas and the compás, the Triana and Jerez approach,
because that’s where the guitarists are from and
Triana and Jerez become one. That’s traditional,
from the Montoya family, from Parrilla and Morao, because
it’s the sound of traditional flamenco.
Manuel participates in three
numbers on the record. Is there still a close partnership
between you two?
I told him I wanted there to be something of ours, and
we did “Nana de la cebolla”, and he also
composed “Cantaba a la mar”, the alegrías
which is very short, and so pretty! really a delight.
I don’t like to lay laurels on myself, because
when I really like someone I say it, when someone has
a new way of playing or sings some good bulerías,
I really take notice and remember that person. But in
this case, when we’ve done it ourselves, I think
the way it’s done, where he’s playing, the
way I come in, it’s a song, and yet, it’s
alegrías, fantastic! I really think it’s
great from the musical point of view, not because it’s
Lole and Manuel…he was also surprised, “what’s
going on here?!”, or sometimes we’d go to
the studio and record and with the first take we’re
saying “don’t you dream of erasing that,
it came out great!” We did a lot of nice stuff,
I really get bored doing the same thing all the time.
I can do it, “El romero verde” for example,
I was singing that for a long time, and it’s not
easy, but I never did it the same way twice, I work
with the musicians, with the tempos…I don’t
like to be type-cast because it’s boring.
Are Lole and Manuel still
current?
‘Lole y Manuel’ continue to be current and
it’s a school people follow. I’ve run into
dancers who say “we’re putting together
a show and using your music”. So many people,
a true school, something special and different, completely
new…afterwards came flamenco fusion, nouveau flamenco
and so on, but it all comes from the same source, we
made inroads to creativity, rhythms, forms, poetry,
when no one else was doing it, because back then they
were doing La Casa de Bernarda Alba or García
Lorca in theaters, and then Camarón started singing
the nana, but in flamenco it wasn’t common because
until then it had been a sort of social protest. When
we were young and they used to ask us “What is
flamenco?”, Manuel would answer “flamenco
is a bird” (she laughs). True flamenco is your
own life experience, what happens to you day in day
out, we broke the traditional mold and didn’t
do what my grandfather did. I used to listen to Caracol,
to Fernanda and Bernarda, Camarón…it was all
so new! This is something which is alive, and as long
as we both live, it continues to be alive. A legend.
“’Lole y Manuel’
are still current and have become a school people follow”
Do you like to innovate in
each recording?
In this one there are some new things. A lot of people
wanted to compose for me, but I wanted to compose in
the line of Lole and Manuel, that’s how it has
to be. “Soledad” I had to do on my own,
because it’s not a bulería, I can show
you how it goes, first it’s like blues, slow and
easy (she hums) and then it starts going into bulerías,
it’s not easy, a real piece of work. “Semejantes”
as well, all the tempos, the silences, switching from
one rhythm to another, I had to do the production all
by myself because I didn’t like what everyone
else did, I couldn’t share their vision. When
it’s time to break the voice or whatever, it has
to be the way I feel it, unless it’s something
I see very clearly and like, then I can bring it to
my way of feeling it.
Was it difficult to move
forward on your own after breaking with ‘Lole
y Manuel’?
Not on a personal level, because the gift I have was
given to me by my father and mother. At the corporate
level however they were saying “without the product,
there’s nothing to sell”, but they know
that if together we’re dynamite, each one alone
also has a special talent. When it comes to selling,
people have a lot of prejudices, but afterwards I was
able to sing with an Arabic quartet, with two guitars
and palmas, and it was great.
“When it comes to
selling, people have a lot of prejudices, but afterwards
I was able to sing with an Arabic quartet, with two
guitars and palmas, and it was great.”
You had a few problems with
the record companies about this record.
I had to do the production all by myself and find all
the people. People who only care about money want to
recuperate expenses the moment they’re generated.
I have no interest in working like that, I want to work
with dreamers, people who make you see the youth of
their vision, not “take the money and run”…you
spend it and there you are, right back where you started.
The record was supposed to
be recorded with the Emi company…didn’t that
happen?
Well, Emi sat there, they didn’t answer, days
turned into weeks and months and they said nothing,
they had us on hold for two years. Later on for other
reasons, the project didn’t come together. You
know one good thing about me? Audiences just as soon
like a nice young guitarist, someone not from my generation,
but he already knows me because of his parents, and
from an intellectual point of view, from Gala to anyone
else, because what we’ve done is an exquisite
piece of work, and then you pick up the record “Ni
el oro ni la plata” and you see I haven’t
changed at all, in fact my artistic spirit has grown.
I went through some hard times because I didn’t
want to sell out…I’ve always been in quality
venues.
“I want to work with
dreamers, people who make you see the youth of their
vision, not “take the money and run”.
Are you still giving recitals?
Of course, recitals, and then I’ll do other things.
Everything’s changed, I’m not twenty years
old any more, I see things from a different angle.
Nothing seems to discourage
you, you’re so wrapped up in your career.
Sure, it’s what I love most. I have no problem
talking about ‘Lole y Manuel’, to me it
has stability…and I don’t sell stories to gossip
columns, I could have done it but wasn’t interested.
I’m not saying this to make myself important,
why would I? The people in the know, as in all professions,
are tight-lipped, it’s an outlook. That thing
of creating your own little kingdom, ‘first me
and then me’, there’s no creativity and
you lose the ability to dream, that’s anti-cultural.
“A lot of people
wanted to compose for me, but I wanted to compose in
the line of Lole and Manuel, that’s how it has
to be”.
What does the future hold
for you?
I just want some peace for a time, to do my recitals
at Casa Patas, I want to do inter-cultural things and
I’d like to start working on a new record.
